Форум » Angel Discussions (Spoiler free Zone) » 5.13 Why We Fight (бывший спойлерный). VasquezE. (12/03/03 01:28:19) » Ответить
5.13 Why We Fight (бывший спойлерный). VasquezE. (12/03/03 01:28:19)
lola: VasquezE(12/03/03 01:28:19) 5.13 Why We Fight (бывший спойлерный). После длительного затишья - куча новой информации. Clairel с ASSB дает краткое содержание сайдзов 13 серии и свои соображения на этот счет. http://www.voy.com/14810/133049110.html Date Posted: 00:11:10 12/03/03 Wed Author: Clairel Author Host/IP: adsl-66-138-40-106.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net / 66.138.40.106 Subject: Casting sides for 5.13 This seems like a really strange episode. I'm going to just summarize very briefly and leave out a lot of details. There are many, many roles being cast. Two are for vampires, one is for a WWII-era Nazi soldier named Heinrich, and the others are for WWII-era American navy men. Somehow Angel and Spike have ended up on a WWII-era German submarine which is crewed by Americans except for the one Nazi, Heinrich. Angel and Spike seem like their present-day selves, so it's as if the sub has gone through a time warp or has been frozen in time somehow. The two new vampire characters, a Russian vampire from the early 20th century named Nostroyev (he says he was Rasputin's lover), and an ancient ugly vampire (like the Master or Kakistos) named The Prince of Lies, are on the sub because the Nazis were collecting vampires to do experiments on them, cut into their brains, and control the vampires minds so that they could have an invincible vampire army. When Spike and Angel hear this they conclude this is why they are there--because the Nazis were trying to get the vampires with the baddest reps. Angel tries to intimidate Nostroyev and the Prince of Lies by introducing himself as Angelus. They've heard of Angelus and are somewhat impressed. There is a lot of talk among Angel, Spike, and the two other vampires about how they mustn't kill the human crew because only the humans know how to pilot the submarine. Nostroyev, the Prince of Lies, and for some reason Spike seem quite bloodthirsty and eager to kill all the humans. (I figure Spike is playing along with the other two in order to seem more impressive to them. Angel gives the other vamps pragmatic reasons for keeping the humans alive--he doesn't want the others to catch on that he's really a good guy.) At one point Spike claims it'll be easy to steer the sub, and he pushes some buttons at random, causing alarms to go off. Most of the sides take place on the submarine, but there's one short scene of an American from the sub, named Lawson, showing up in Angel's office. The bit of conversation is enigmatic and hard to make heads or tails of. There is also a short scene of Wesley looking at books and papers in his office, and finding Fred bound and gagged, tied to a chair. Angel and Spike (maybe just Angel) end up dusting one or two of the other vampires. When the American Navy men see Angel fight, they think he's a superhero like Captain America. That's about it. Spoilers in above post (sorry!), and also... -- Clairel, 00:35:22 12/03/03 Wed (adsl-66-138-40-106.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net/66.138.40.106) Before someone suggests this really could have happened to Angel and Bad Spike in the 1940s, I wanted to explain the reasons I think Spike and Angel are their present-day selves: (1) Lawson, an American from the sub, visits Angel's office in the present; (2) The Americans on the sub comment on Angel's strange haircut, which I figure is his present-day haircut, since he was probably a conformist in the 1940s and would have had a normal 1940s haircut back then; (3) If Spike and Angel had met on this submarine in the 1940s they would have remembered it, but I always thought they never met between 1900 China and 1997 Sunnydale; (4) When Spike and Angel hear from Heinrich about the Nazis' experiments to control vampires' minds by cutting into their brain, there is specific mention of Spike's angry reaction. I took that to mean he was thinking about his bad experience with the Initiative, and so it must be present-day Spike, not 1940s Spike. Постараюсь вечером перевести (или, если придет текст самих сайдзов, перевести его целиком) [off]ссылка на соответствующий топик оригинального форума Marstersverse[/off]
lola: VasquezE(01/25/04 08:36:43) WB выпустило описание 13 серии на mediasharx.com The WB has released details about the February 8 episode of ANGEL, entitled "Why We Fight": VAMPIRES ABOARD A GERMAN U-BOAT Lawson (guest star Eyal Podell, "Behind Enemy Lines"), a mysterious man from Angel's (David Boreanaz) past, arrives at Wolfram & Hart and takes the gang hostage. Through flashbacks to World War II, it is revealed that Angel worked with the U.S. Navy to recover a captured German submarine with American sailors on board. The ship also has a secret cargo, a dangerous trio of vampires, including Spike (James Marsters), who were kidnapped by the Germans and forced to help the Nazis. When the sub comes under attack, Angel saves Lawson's life by turning him into a vampire. Now, sixty years later, Lawson has arrived at Wolfram & Hart seeking revenge. Alexis Denisof, J. August Richards, Amy Acker and Andy Hallett also star. Terrence O'Hara directed the episode written by Drew Goddard & Steven S. DeKnight Какая прелесть! Оказывается, Ангел не убил Лоусона, превратив его в вампира, а спас ему жизнь! О каноне можно окончательно забыть... Может быть, пришло время реабилитации неодушевленных вампиров?
lola: Geroneja(01/25/04 12:08:23) И все равно даже такие фразы Ангелу Батьковичу в контексте 10-й серии не помогут и все! Но посмотрим
lola: Strenger(01/26/04 07:36:28) Если принимать всерьез промки и уорнерские "описания" (не говоря о самостоятельных упражненьицах разных всяких Тивигайдовцев) - то не доживешь до субботы Да достаточно уже на окружающий текст посмотреть: Ангел, значит, спас Лоусону жизнь - и вот спасенный теперь seeking revenge (за спасение, надо полагать...) Нет, пока я склонна больше верить собственно сюжету. По которому - как ни крути - выходит, что Ангел Лоусона в самом прямом смысле поматросил и бросил (а заодно и на всех потенциальных жертв новообращенного наплевал... ну, ему не привыкать: в контексте истории с Дарлой и до сих пор гуляющей где-то среди "гамбургеров на ножках" Дрю все вполне логично).
lola: VasquezE(02/03/04 13:52:47) In the new TV Guide (the one for next week) there's a great ad for the AtS episode that week, 5.13. It has a gorgeous close-up of Spike's face (he has never looked better) with a submarine turret underneath, and the words "1943: Hitler has a secret weapon...Spike."
lola: Geroneja(02/03/04 18:02:28) Тут-то мы и приехали )))
lola: Creeck((02/03/04 22:17:49) ...нет слов!... ----------- We bound by the life we left behind...
lola: Naisica(02/04/04 04:49:26) Ну всё... ------ Spike:Out...For..A...Walk...BITCH!
lola: AlhenaG(02/04/04 17:45:18) Прелесть какая! Ну прям Бонд какой-то, про него ведь обычно говорят. "England's most powerful weapon. Jet setting heartbreaker on her majesty's secret service"
lola: VasquezE(02/05/04 04:50:32) Первые промо-фото из серии. Спайка нет. Но во вчерашней серии показывали промку, он там с темными волосами! http://mediasharx.com/index.php/news/817
lola: Geroneja(02/05/04 12:18:15) Мдя-м, очередной парик?? ) Я себе представляю эту картину
lola: VasquezE(02/06/04 10:31:59) Промка (наконец-то) http://thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0,8201,||1790,00.html
lola: Geroneja(02/06/04 13:59:43) О, ура, Васкес, спасибо, доберусь до своего компа - буду качать
lola: VasquezE(02/11/04 13:34:12) Херк опубликовал рецензию AICN http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=16996 Herc’s Seen ANGEL 101!! I am – Hercules!! Angel 5.13 FAQ What’s it called? “Why We Fight.” Who’s responsible? Teleplay is credited to Drew Goddard and Steve DeKnight. What did Coax say about this one back on Jan. 21? “During World War II (long before Maggie Walsh was born) a “government initiative” recruits Angel for a World War II submarine mission (where he runs into another former “Buffy” regular).” Huh. What does TV Guide say? “When a face from his past shows up at Wolfram & Hart, flashbacks reveal Angel's role in salvaging a damaged WWII sub carrying crucial technology---and vampire prisoners. But Angel's visitor doesn't want to reminisce; he's looking to settle an old score. Lawson: Eyal Podell. Hodge: Matt Goodwin. Spinelli: Nick Spano.” Any reference to the late Cordelia Chase this week? Zero. None. Though other events of the prior ‘sode are alluded to. Where’s Eve? “Tactical swept her hangouts, and our locators ran through their usual voodoo,” notes Charles Gunn. “Each came back with the same result: Eve has vanished.” Is Eve in hiding from the senior partners now? “The senior partners don't take betrayal lightly,” notes one member of Team Angel. “Yeah, well, gotta figure they whisked her up shortly after they nabbed the scheming prince,” theorizes another. What old score does Angel’s visitor wish to settle? Angel sired him 60 years ago. Which, when you think hard about it, makes the visitor (his nanme is Lawson) a wholly unique member of the Buffiverse. The big news? Spike sports a hitherto unseen look this week. Its reveal is easily one of the most gratifying moments of the hour. The bigger news? It’s a government “demon research initiative” that recruits Angel, and in 1943 appears to be brand spanking new. There’s no reason to believe this is not the same body that bedeviled Buffy Summers four years ago. And, given its long secret history, more than a few viewers may posit that the Initiative probably didn’t exactly close down after it fled Sunnydale. What else is TV Guide not telling us? Take away the flashbacks and an epilogue with Spike, and this episode is basically one long scene. Has Spike signed on with Team Angel? No. It’s fairly clear that he’s still operating apart from the firm. What’s good? The War Department’s version of the Iniative is a hoot, as is the Fury-esque (Nick, that is, not David) officer who seems to oversee it. It’s fun to watch the clueless sub crew react to all the big weirdness. And it’s surprising compelling to see how effortlessly Angel seems to adapt to military culture; his management style aboard the sub (and there is much to manage down there) stands in marked contrast to his more laid-back approaches to Wolfram and Angel Investigations. Amusing also are the three very different vampires the Nazis are transporting. What’s not so good? The first time we see a youthful Lawson at the firm, his vampire status is easy to guess, and some may also find it a little to easy to guess the reason for his transformation. As a result, Angel’s big decision in the last act doesn’t manifest much of a reveal, and the episode kind of needs one there. How does it end, spoiler-boy? “Then what was he looking for?” asks Spike. “A reason,” replies Angel. Herc’s rating for “Angel” 5.13? ***1/2 Я не поняла Angel sired him 60 years ago. Which, when you think hard about it, makes the visitor (his nanme is Lawson) a wholly unique member of the Buffiverse. Если он хочет сказать, что Лоусон - единственный, кого обратил вампир с душой, то как же Холден и прочие "детки Спайка в Sleeper? И Спайкфид Дори с BAPS. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:58:36 -0500 From: Dori <ms_dori@earthlink.net> Subject: SPIKEFEED SPOILERS: Why We Fight (SHORT) Spike does have dark hair in the flashback. Those of you who thought he got the Nazi coat by eating a German and taking it were right. <G> In fact, he sings "God Save the King" to taunt the German who's left. Only about two bars, but hey. James is singing. Camden Toy (late of Ubie fame) plays one of the vampires. Whoever they got to play the Navy kid, man we need to see more of him. He was like Holden, very cool character, and it's a shame he gets dusted in the end. Spike in the flashback is Regular Old Evil Spike. And he calls Angel a dick. <EG> We see Spike at the very end, after everything has gone down. He comes into Angel's office, and they talk about the kid for a minute, then the two of them stand at the window, looking out at the sunlight on the buildings. There didn't seem to be any reason to put the scene in, except to remind us that Spike and Angel are on the same side now. It was very much an "us against the world" kind of shot. And we now have canonical evidence that turning someone when you have a soul makes them different from normal vamps. The kid says that he did all the things monsters are supposed to do, but he felt nothing. What I got from that was that he didn't enjoy it the way Spike did before he got the soul. At one point he asks Angel if he has a soul, too. Angel replies, "I don't think it works that way." But clearly the soul has some effect. -- Dori
lola: Geroneja(02/11/04 16:25:42) Я тоже что-то не совсем поняла с этой фразой, возможно, имелся ввиду конкретно Ангел? Хотя... Непроверяемый факт А Дори что-то немногословна )) Васкес, спасибо )
lola: Strenger(02/13/04 03:10:24) Ну, Холден (как и прочие детки Спайка) просто не прожил достаточно долго, чтобы считаться прецедентом. Не успели они на мировом радаре отметиться (А кроме того, при всей своей прокламируемой тяге к злодействам, его все-таки почему-то потянуло оказывать Истребительнице эту психологическую помощь - значит можно считать, что и с ним что-то было не так, по примеру Лоусона ). И потом, я не уверена, насколько случай Спайка тут аналогичен. Если действия, совершенные им "под влиянием", ему нельзя ставить в счет (а нельзя - ведь он даже *не знал*, что его тело делает в тот момент), то можно ли корректно утверждать, что *он* обратил всех вышесказанных? Ведь его-то собственная воля, личность там роли не играли. Не говоря уж о душе. То есть, ситуация как раз была ближе к той, в которой находятся обычные, "неиспорченные" вампиры...
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